Simplified Security for MSPs: Escape Contract Chaos and Tool Overload

Brian Moody:   

So the topic today and what we wanted to catch up on really was just, you know, our partners and really how I think we've optimized and helped them really revolutionized their operations around security and unique things that we've done for them throughout the year and value they found, especially around contracts around tool sets. So let's dive into that a little bit.  

Shahin Pirooz:

Yeah, I would say that the general theme in this category is we've heard from partners all over the place and we've evolved our partner community. It's gone beyond just MSPs today. It's really broadened into solution providers as a whole. So system integrators, VARs, MSPs, all are taking advantage of the portfolio that we put together.  

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And the common theme that we're hearing is the voice of the partner says, I used to have to do all of this myself. I used to have to go and evaluate technologies and tech stacks and how they integrate together and will it work with the other tools that I have? And how am I going to train my people, how am I going to staff it, how am I going to do tech refreshes, how am I going to deploy it? What are the procedural documents I have to write up? All the little nits and grits that you have to do to manage any kind of software stack.  

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And we've always talked about WhiteDog as a curated enterprise cybersecurity stack that's composable, really designed around this concept of continuous improvement. We're constantly looking at either adding capability, functionality to the platform with new technologies, new products, or evaluating the technologies that power the platform and rip and replacing those if they no longer meet the market demand. And what I mean by market demand is the bad actors outpace us. If there are technology companies that have a lot of technical debt that, eventually, they can't keep up with the attack surface that the bad actors are throwing at them.  

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So that platform has really enabled our partners to be able to focus on their business more and focus their resources more on customer satisfaction and customer development and expansion of their capabilities within those customers. Because they're not spending countless hours and months and quarters trying to develop technology stacks, meet with vendors, evaluate those technologies, do POCs, once they got those, figure out how to integrate it with the stack they already have and how to remove what they had before and replace it with something new. All of that back end headache, we deal with as a partner. And we do it in such a way that it's white-labeled and it's their own service that they take to market.  

Brian:

We've seen a little dynamic with that, and so I'd like to dig a little deeper and get your thoughts from a standpoint of the type of partners that we've engaged. Because it's been very interesting this year as we've engaged the partner community. As I talk to you, our owners and I've talked to many of you that have not yet signed up and many of our partners that have signed up. The dynamic of the partner community is wide and it's vast.  

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So, I would say that the greatest portion of the partners that we've signed up today were already doing some security. That's what I found most interesting was this wasn't something that they weren't doing. Now, we have a segment of our partner community that didn't have any security services and are now using WhiteDog as that security services. We optimize their business and we can dig into that a bit. But, first I'd like to touch on this partner that was doing security that was trying to figure out the contracts, was trying to figure out the toolset to use and then implement it and manage that business. But what I found most unique about a lot of these partners is this was kind of an add on. This was something that wasn't their core. They had established their business with their customers based upon kind of traditional MSP services and then they were bringing that security piece in as an add on. So the time, and one of our key partners BACS that has been a part of our community for a long time now, their CEO was talking about the time he got back because they were similar to that. So expand upon a little bit of how you see that our framework has really enabled that.  

Shahin:

I remember that dialogue well with Jeremy. And the conversation was really around not just his time savings, but his team's time savings. From an owner perspective it was contracts evaluation, contracts management, vendor introductions and negotiations and all of that level. But then from a team perspective it was running the POCs once the POCs were implemented, getting an evaluation of, what's the rigor around the POC? Does this tool do what the vendor said it does? Does it actually function in such a way that it's going to benefit us versus hurt us? Does it impact any of our customers' productivity? All those things that we all as technologists have to worry about were things that his team had to do. And in that conversation, Jeremy told me, he said, I just can't believe that it's been, and they've been a partner of ours from the very first day we launched. They were partner number one for WhiteDog, and he said, this conversation was a few months ago, so he said, it's been 14 months. Just over a year. Yeah, it's been just over a year. And we kept waiting for something, James his partner said, we kept waiting for something to go wrong because we kept waiting to see what are they not telling us, what's this WhiteDog team not telling us about what's broken, what doesn't work, what's missing in this integration stack. And that shoe never dropped, and it didn't drop, a month went by, a quarter went by, another quarter went by, a year went by, and it's like it didn't. And it just keeps giving us time back so we can go and expand. And since then they've done an acquisition, they've grown their customer base significantly and now they require our XDR service, which is their XDR service, as a requirement to get any of their managed services. So if a customer signs up today, they have to add the XDR portfolio to their managed services.  

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So, that dialogue actually going back in time, when we were initially having conversations with James and Jeremy, they had already built a stack, they had already invested in technologies. They had spent cycles talking to some of the vendors that we use in our stack. And I remember sitting in a room with James and the dialogue was, are you kidding me? You've already had built all these relationships, you've already negotiated all these contracts. I don't have to go do this. And if it doesn't work, you'll change it. What's the catch? And, you know, honestly, that's the perfect conversation for me. I love that dialogue because it's like I want to be challenged. Is there a catch? Am I missing something that we need to do as a company that we need to adapt, that we didn't think about? And you know, in that relationship, along with many other partners, they have helped us to improve and evolve by giving us constant feedback to saying, you know, if you just tweak this one thing or if this report looked different or this thing did different, all of those little nuances and tits and bits on the backend, which are the consumer of the service providing input, allows us to improve it for everybody else. And, 18 months ago, when we started the services, we had 14, 15 products in the portfolio. Today we're at 18 and adding another two products coming into January, which, you know, dropping a little hint, we'll be talking a little bit about what's coming. Some interesting stuff in the pipeline for our customers and partners. I think that the important thing is that as we have grown, we still get that dialogue happening with prospective partners, the I don't get it. What's the catch? Why is this happening?  

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To keep the innocent anonymous, we just got an email response to this particular live cast that basically said, I don't understand. Aren't you guys just a Frankenstein hodgepodge of technologies? And you know, the response to that is we are using commercial technologies, but no differently than you do or would yourself, given the time, money, and wherewithal to do it. So the stack is designed in such a way with MSPs in mind. Coming from that background, I've been in this space for almost 30 years now in the MSP space, one of the early pioneers starting in 1999 before that term even existed. And so we really thought about it from the perspective of myself as a operator of an MSP. What was frustrating to me when I had these vendor conversations, what was taking most of my time when I was evaluating technologies, how do we alleviate those pains? And we built WhiteDog as a platform that front ends open source and commercial enterprise class, enterprise grade technologies that are already integrated.  

Brian:

So this is that technology debt that we talk about, right? So, as our MSP partners are engaging and implementing those platforms, that technology debt is real. It has real cost to it. And that was, I think, you know some of our partners have talked to this, about the time that they get back. You know, a couple of important things that you brought up, I think about our BACS partner is they advanced their business, they made an acquisition. So the additional time that they had to focus on taking their business to the next level, some of those cycles came from the fact that they're not managing all of the backend. But they've now moved that forward, and they have a substantial revenue band that they didn't have 16 months ago. With no cost. With no cost. I mean, no technology debt cost associated with it. Or human cost. And that's, I think is one of our major advantages and value propositions that WhiteDog brings to the MSP and to our partner community is that, we take that away. And that was the whole, your plan behind the design.  

Shahin:

So, because we have prospective partners and we have existing partners listening on this, I want to make sure that it comes across clear when we say we take something away. It's never about taking control or access away. It's always about taking the burden away. It rolls off of our tongues very easily. And I got some feedback recently that I don't want you to take my control away. And I get it. I wouldn't want that either if I was running my MSP still. Any vendor that came in said you don't get to do anything, I would say there's the door. Have a nice day. We have built a co-managed platform from the ground up. We don't take access away for anything. We give you access to all the consoles, to all the tools if you want them. But we also give you the freedom to say your team never has to log into it, but you're still going to get the alerts and notifications and response and all that embedded in the platform.  

Brian:

I think if we look at that kind of partner characteristic that we've talked about, one of our key partners that was doing this, they have since replaced some of those functions, costs, with a WhiteDog platform. Let's step next to kind of some of the new partners that we brought on board that weren't doing this at all. So these were MSP partners that were offering MSP services but offered no security services. And the owners that I've talked to and the partners we've signed up there is the WhiteDog platform has enabled them to almost immediately have an enterprise class security offering with really limited, to almost zero, barrier of entry.  

Shahin:

There's none, to be honest, because we have no minimums, it's a consumption based platform. So, the only barrier to entry is the trust in this company, this partner, or WhiteDog. So once our partners get past that and we start moving forward, we start to see some serious value for our partners in that space. And we've got companies that are overseas, not in the US at all, that are white-labeling WhiteDog to that entire country's MSP ecosystem. And the value proposition for them was, they said, we've been looking at building something like this and we've been evaluating it, we've been doing IT services, and we're one of a bunch of MSPs in the country, and nobody does security super well, and so we thought we would step up and do it. But you've already built it. Do you have a problem with us reselling it to downstream MSPs in the country? And the answer was absolutely not.  

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The WhiteDog ecosystem was designed to be N-layers of multi-tenant, and as far as we're concerned, the partner who we interact with is our partner and their customers. Whether they're MSP system integrators or actual end customers doesn't matter to us. So we've built the platform in such a way that it will scale. Our largest end customer today is 30,000 seats. Our smallest end customer today is one seat. So it scales up and down. And when you talk about our XDR platform, which the complete platform is about 10 technologies and these are enterprise grade technologies, you could never get that from the manufacturer, from those 10 manufacturers for a one seat deal. But you can from WhiteDog. And that was the real value for some of these partners that had smaller customers, but also the ones who have bigger customers wanted to have the comfort that, are you going to be able to scale? And the answer was yes. And here's the value proposition in that side. So, I think it's, you know, from whether you've already built something we've got tools that help to determine what are the investments that you've made. When do they, you know, what do the contract terms look like? When do they expire? When do they come up for renewal? Do a TCO evaluation for you, for what would it look like to transition from one thing to another, to our services, for example, and get you off the ground to somebody who has nothing and being able to say, rather than going and spending all these cycles and doing all this development, I can within 30 days become an MSSP. And that's the real value proposition behind what we bring. The high level value proposition is if you've got nothing, you'll get something immediately. The value proposition across the board is if you've already got something, there's a transition plan for how to get you there smoothly.  

Brian:

So think about those partners that spent all that time negotiating those contracts, doing that tool evaluation, doing the POCs, and then implementing, hiring staff, all of that has gone away. But that barrier to entry, especially for our partners that today are offering services, this opens up new markets, it opens up new customers. And I think one of the biggest things is existing customers that they're selling to, that competitive threat of another MSSP coming in that offers those MSP services and the security service, they now could take a WhiteDog platform into their business and protect that customer base with the WhiteDog solution. So, let's take the next step, you mentioned earlier in kind of our introduction that we've kind of grown to the solution provider. And that is something that I think that we've seen here in Q3, Q4 of 2024 is the solution provider community kind of step back, said, oh, wait a minute, this WhiteDog. And what's unique here is we're seeing them engage us, in some case, in the white-label platform, but in other case them taking us to market as a manufacturer partner through their services and adding us on as a product that they're now bringing into their customer base. So talk a little bit about maybe some of the advantages that a solution provider can take to market with our platform.  

Shahin:

It's much of the same. When you think about, for those of you who have been on sales conversations with us, we start out with the Optiv line card, which is 4,500 security technologies and categorized. Which one do you want? And when you're starting to think about building a security practice, you have to think about something like that because there's so many technologies in the space and you have to figure out which categories are you going to deal with, what software you're going to partner with how many relationships do you have to build? And the problem we solve for the VARs and system integrators who either don't have a security practice yet or have one and want to expand it to add managed services to it, managed security services, is that overnight they don't have to worry about developing a massive line card of services, but they can really effectively answer how do I close security gaps for a customer? Great point. And so, the lead into that is, if you're building a security practice, it should be a compliance led security practice so that you can understand what gaps the customer has and what controls they need in order to close those gaps and what technologies are going to meet those controls. So, hold that thought for the future conversation.  

Brian:

So I think what I've heard from our solution provider owners is they're very much the tool mindset. So if you think about them engaging, selling things like network, compute, storage, backup, those components and then they get into security, it's pinpoint security. They're selling the mail tool, they might be selling the endpoint solution, but none of it is integrated, none of it's interoperative. It's just they're selling a tool and maybe helping, and in some cases, not even helping the customer manage the tool. Again, that tool mindset comes into play and the solution providers that we've signed now are like, wait a minute, this is an integrated, full solution stack that we can bring to market and it's co-managed, and back to not taking that control away. After the first and second meeting, what's the same question we hear? What's the catch? What's the catch? My favorite, my absolute favorite is I had a VP of security actually tell me you have this in production? This is in production. He said, I've never seen anything like this. And he looked at me through Zoom and says, I don't believe you, I don't believe you. That's my favorite comment from a security professional, I don't believe you. But I think that's the advantage that they see is that they can bring the WhiteDog solution, which is an entire security stack. Now the other important point that we keep talking to is we offer 18 services. Each one of those individual services could be sold as a gap solution. So that's one of the other catalysts that I think that the solution providers are seeing is they may have already sold, as you've said, there are a couple of key pieces of the security stack to their customers and they can fill gaps with the WhiteDog solution. And then we do have that economic transition roadmap that allows us to then say, okay, what are those other key components that you've sold? When do those contracts come up and expire? What's the overlay look like? And we can actually build that 36 month TCO out for them to say here are the transition points, and here's the economic impact of making that transition.  

Shahin:

With no pressure, by the way. You could choose never to transition and you're going to continue to run EDR the way you do, but you want to take advantage of some of our other services to close additional gaps. So we've really designed the platform in such a way that it could be consumed in the capacity that you need it or your customers need it. And it might be different for each customer or you might do like BACS did and say we're going to include XDR with every one of our customers. From our seat, we've designed it specifically so that you could make that choice yourself. It's not a force fed answer.  

Brian:

And I think as we move forward, I mean some of the questions that I am asking our partner community is if you're considering getting into this? And if you think about the modern enterprise, even the small customer today and a lot of the customers in the MSP community calls on 1,000 seats and down, But if you think about those environments, say five to eight even 10 years ago, they were pretty simple. I mean you had access to the Internet, you might have had a firewall, you might have had a small network inside, a lot of it was on prem. But the dynamics of even these small companies today, the dynamics of that enterprise environment, are no different than a 5,000 - 10,000 seat company. It's cloud based, it's mobile devices, it's maybe some on prem, it's SaaS properties. I mean that dynamic is no different, and the complexities of securing that environment now are no different. And what I think that drives now is the barrier to entry to build your own security practice, to be able to really secure that environment, that barrier not only cost, investment, and time, has risen dramatically. And I think we impact that with the WhiteDog service.  

Shahin:

I had an interesting conversation with a competitor and they said how many technologies do you have in your stack? I said there's about 45 technologies under the surface if you consumed everything, 35 commercial and 10 open source technologies, all tightly integrated. And they said well that's too many. I said based on what? And they said well you don't need that many tools. I said how many do you need? They said 20. I said I'm just curious how many tools are in your portfolio? They said 20. I said okay, I understand. So, we have hinted both in the lead in to this dialogue, in the LinkedIn announcement, as well as, a few minutes ago I kind of hinted at it. We're going to talk a little bit about what's coming, what's next, what's the future, what's next.  

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So, in security, we have got to continuously be thinking about what is the bad actor community moving towards. And there's a handful of areas where that is obvious. One of the most obvious questions we get regularly is how do we protect AI, generative AI specifically. And that answer comes in multiple ways. The short answer to it is part of our Internet threat protection platform includes CASB functionality that allows us to block specific URLs, specific IP addresses, so that your users can't go to places you don't want them to go. So if you say for example that the only place we want them to go is Copilot, but they can't go to Bard, they can't go to ChatGPT, they can't go to whatever, we can block those things for you. And it's a business decision at a company level. So that one I don't think is first of all, number one, I don't think it's a major issue. I don't think the world has solved the problem of how do I allow people to use it, but do DLP in the paste actions into the generative AI platforms. And there's about six companies that are working on that today. We are keeping a very close eye on these companies to see who takes the lead and who starts to actually do something effective here.  

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Browser level protection is a factor, but it's still not there. And we're very excited about where browser level protection could go in this category. We're providing input into all six of these companies I'm referring to and what they ought to do, what they should be thinking about to help shape this space for the future. So browser level controls so that you can deploy browser protection so that if your users are going to a ChatGPT or a Bard or a Copilot or whatever, that whatever they're pasting is at least meeting company compliance and policy. That's the big elephant on the table is generative AI. That's what everybody's concerned about is how do we secure it.  

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I think the thing that continues to be a problem and will continue to be a problem is identity security. And I think that that is the area where we've put a lot of energy into enhancing, what we've launched this last quarter of the year that will be effectively available in January is , what we call Zero Trust Identity, and it comes in multiple flavors. One of them is a identity posture management capability so that we can assess your Active Directory in Azure AD to see if your, Entra ID I should say, to see if you've got any configurations that need to be tweaked or adjusted or accounts that are sitting stale and old and all that.  

Brian:

Because right now that's, outside of email, it's the number one attack surface. How do I get user name password access?  

Shahin:

So, phishing, email is 93% of attacks. All attacks basically generate, start from email. But their goal is to do credential harvesting. So the minute they get somebody's credential then the next thing they do is try to land malicious code inside the network so they can get access to the network and then start using those credentials to start moving laterally and elevate and escalate and exfiltrate data eventually. So if you start thinking about what are the areas where you need to protect. It's a five layer security approach that we talk about regularly. And our evolution from 2018 when we started building this to today has been a vision of XDR even before the term XDR existed. We don't believe the rest of the market that calls themselves XDR is doing XDR. They're doing EDR plus extended detection. Their response is at the endpoint but they do extended detection in other places and try to correlate that data in.  

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We do detection and response at email, DNS, endpoint, network and it's all managed and monitored 24 by 7 with threat hunting. What we're adding is that Zero Trust Identity which is the missing layer in the stack. So first level of defense should be email. We've got great answers for that space. Second level of defense should be DNS and it should not be at the firewall, it should be distributed. We've got great answers there. The next level is that Zero Trust Identity which is launching in January and I'd love to talk to anybody who's interested in digging deeper into that. But besides the ISPM, Identity Security Posture Management, we've also got identity detection and response functionality that lets us determine things like account takeovers, elevation of privilege, and so on and so forth.  

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The other thing that comes in parallel to all of what we just talked about, so we just talked about the layers of defense, but now we need to talk about protection. We've had SaaS backup, which if you get encrypted, you have the ability to recover very quickly. And there's about 18 SaaS properties we protect today, including the entire Office 365 environment which means SharePoint teams, OneDrive and the email platform. Google as well. But, Salesforce, Microsoft Dynamics, it's many, many of the SaaS properties out there that are core to people's business.  

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But that's the data protection side of recovery. What about exfiltration? If the data is being taken out of your environment it is at risk of being exposed to the customer and if you don't have proper protection to prevent exfiltration then protecting exfiltration is the next level. In our Data Risk Management platform, which we're launching again in January, is another key component of moving forward strategy, which is really around monitoring data risk across your environment and enabling the ability based on a regulatory concern to encrypt that data. So even if the bad actor takes it, it's encrypted and you now don't need encryption keys, or decryption keys, to decrypt the environment because they don't have anything that they can publish.  

Brian:

Because industry percentage shows, they're getting in. I mean at this point it's not if they're getting in, it's when they get in. And then now how does our environment be able to protect and react to the fact that they're in?  

Shahin:   

I'd like to say knock on wood, over the past eight, nine years of business we've only had, after a customer is on our service, we've only had three situations where we've had to deal with incident response. We've done a lot of incident response for prospects who are coming onto the surface, moving from competitor platforms and everything else but, knock on wood, we've done a pretty phenomenal, we've been doing a great job of identifying things and reducing dwell time to the point where it doesn't take an impact. The other major announcement that's coming out is what I hinted at earlier which is the compliance led security approach. We are launching our governance, risk and compliance offering within our portal for partners to be able to consume and use. And it's a cost effective solution that allows you to create security policies for your customers, to be able to do risk matrices for them, to be able to manage regulatory concerns like PCI, HIPAA, whatever the case may be, GDPR. And it gives you a very simple approach to be able to self audit, self assess, and also to be able to provide reports to the customer.  

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I think one of the most powerful capabilities in it is the controls gapping. You can identify the concern that you want to use, whether it's regulatory, industry, or whatever. Let's say you want to use the NIST CSF as your framework and you then apply that control set and then you say give me a security policy that shows me all the controls I should have, and it generates that for you. Let's say now that you have a customer that wants to use the NIST CSF + PCI + GDPR and you apply those regulatory control sets and it does the crosswalking and mapping of those controls and then presents that to you as, now you can print out that security policy that says your security policy has these additional controls that weren't just in NIST CSF or it might have been all encompassing depending on the control set you picked. So it allows you to very quickly update security policies and procedures. It allows for those customers that are getting audited to be able to go through the audits quickly, to load evidence in the platform, in a very cost effective way going forward. Those are the three major announcements.  

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For those that are partners of ours, you know we've got our own identity platform designed for single sign on functionality into our platform and all the back end tools, leveraging your own and your customers Office 365 or Google credentials. Our authorization platform is now expanding to include token based authentication and I mean physical tokens. So we're looking at partnering with companies like YubiKey and that announcement will be coming out this year. And then our dashboarding and reporting functionality are the other major releases that are coming out. So lots of excitement in the new year.  

Brian:

So you and the tools team, you guys aren't too busy over there right now?  

Shahin:  

Everything we do has really been around the notion of if I were a consumer of this platform, what are the things I would like to see? And everything we do is a customer partner in approach to how we go to market rather than what I fear most companies, most manufacturers do, which is an engineering out. We built this great widget and you got to figure out how to make your business mold around it. Our answer is we know you have a business and we know you have stuff to do and we know that you need security and these capabilities. How do we make it so that it's easier for you to consume and implement in your environment?  

Brian:

You made I think a key point at the beginning. It's that we're watching the hacker community. We're watching what happens and being in 26 countries and five continents, the telemetry that our security operations centers receive on a day to day basis, we're responding and reacting to that telemetry. We're seeing upcoming and new trends with respect to areas that we need to focus on and I think that's where you and the tools team are diving and prioritizing our roadmap.  

Shahin:

You just reminded me of the thing I'm most excited about coming out in '25 that I forgot about. We're looking at publishing our threat intelligence that Brian was just hinting at. We are creating the WhiteDog threat feed that partners customers can consume and ingest into their firewalls, for example, to automatically fend and defend against known bad threats that we're dealing with globally. And that data is enriched by commercial threat feeds. So we do get an open source threat feed. So we do pull information from multiple sources, but it is heavily enriched by us in terms of what we actually see in the ecosystem. We also monitor what's going on in the world from NIST, from CISA, from the FBI, from the threat community. And we constantly create IOCs in all of our platforms to be able to detect a bad actor as quickly as possible. Our entire mission in life is to take dwell time from 200 days to six minutes.  

Brian:  

So one other piece I know it's on the roadmap, don't know the timeline specifically, but this came up with a specific partner customer the other day. We talk about the proactive approach that we bring, the vulnerability, the internal and external vulnerability assessments that we do daily and monthly within our platform. From that, we learned that systems need patching and that information comes back in. So this came back, and this is a massive burden on customers. I've got to understand what assets I have and then how do I patch them. So I know that if you were to speak briefly to that, the team's been working on bringing that capability there.  

Shahin:

We are working on a configuration management platform for endpoints and servers to the degree that it can update critical security patches on your behalf, and also it's a platform that partners can take advantage of to be able to do software updates, patch updates, configuration management beyond critical security. Our focus and our attention will be on critical security patches to help close the gaps that are out there. So that is another item on the roadmap in terms of where we're headed, configuration management as a whole. We already include aspects of configuration management in our network operations services, in our NOC services, where we're backing up the configs for firewalls and routers and switches. This goes another level where we're now able to update patch level and even potentially operating systems on critical security issues at the endpoint layer. Asset management is another layer of that that is coming out which is going to give you the ability to have a asset management layer for your customer environment, including contract management so that you can monitor, many of you sell your customers their equipment, so you can monitor what you sold them so you can monitor warranties, renew cycles, refresh cycles and those are all capabilities. So there's more and more. Our roadmap is rich and heavy. Again, I sit and dwell on the things that I want on my wishlist and we figure out how we can prioritize and get those out.  

Brian:

So we talk about this wealth of services, but the key point, too, for us is all of this culminates back to a WhiteDog centralized portal that our customers have access to. So you talked earlier about that control. We don't take that control away. We open our portal up and access to the tool sets for our partners and our partners can extend the customers if they would like. But it's a co-managed solution. So all of these components that we talk about are centralized into a WhiteDog portal so that you have one seamless place to go to for access to the platform telemetry. And I think that's, again, that's a time, that's a technical debt, it's a resource optimization, that I think that we brought to market.  

Shahin:

So in terms of what '25 brings forward from a security risk perspective, I would say the two things I am concerned about, what we see on attacks and consistent behavior in the bad actor community, are the identity risk and data exfiltration risks. Those are the two things that I feel aren't addressed well in the community, and those are two things that we're moving forward aggressively to launch in January.  

Brian:

Well that was quite a mouthful. So, let's close this. Let's close '24.  

Shahin:

It was a it was a great year. We toured the country and got to see a lot of partners, make new partners, meet existing partners, grow business together. It's been a great year. I thank you for your trust in us, those who've already trusted us and those who will trust us, anticipatory. We look forward to '25 and wish you all the happiest of holidays.

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